PAUL:
“Mary, you watched Jesus die. You saw where they buried Him. Then you went back to the tomb—and His body was gone. What did you think had happened?”
MARY:
“I thought someone had taken Him.”
PAUL:
“And later that morning, you saw Jesus standing in front of you… but you thought He was the gardener. What changed?”
MARY:
“He said my name.”
PAUL:
Welcome to The Bereans Podcast.
Today we are imagining a conversation with one of the most remarkable women in the New Testament: Mary Magdalene.
The Gospels tell us that Jesus delivered her from seven demons, that she followed Him and helped support His ministry, that she remained near the cross when He was crucified, that she saw where He was buried, and that she came to the tomb early on the first day of the week.
And then came one of the most extraordinary moments in all of Scripture. Mary Magdalene became the first person recorded in the Gospels to encounter the risen Christ. John tells us that she then went to the disciples with an astonishing announcement: “I have seen the Lord.”
Before we begin, a reminder: this conversation is dramatized. Mary Magdalene was a real person, but many of the questions we will ask her are not answered directly in Scripture. Her responses are imagined from what the Bible tells us about her life, her circumstances, and her relationship with Jesus.
Where Scripture speaks, Scripture remains our authority.
Mary, thank you for being here.
MARY:
Thank you, Paul.
PAUL:
I want to begin with something Luke tells us about you very early in the story. He says Jesus had cast seven demons out of you. That is almost all we are told. What was your life like before Jesus?
MARY:
Dark. And frightening. There were times when I didn’t feel as though I belonged to myself anymore. I knew something was terribly wrong, and I think the people around me knew it too. But knowing someone is suffering and knowing how to help them are two very different things.
PAUL:
Were people afraid of you?
MARY:
Some probably were. Others may have pitied me. Some kept their distance. And I can’t blame them entirely. There are kinds of suffering people understand, and then there are kinds they don’t. Mine was the kind people didn’t know what to do with.
PAUL:
Did you feel hopeless?
MARY:
Yes. When something has controlled your life long enough, you begin to wonder whether this is simply who you are. Whether freedom is even possible. And then Jesus came.
PAUL:
What do you remember most about being delivered?
MARY:
Peace. That is the simplest way I can describe it. Something that had dominated my life was suddenly gone. There was quiet inside me. I could think. I could breathe. I could look at another person and not feel trapped inside something I couldn’t control.
PAUL:
Did you understand who Jesus was at that point?
MARY:
Not fully. But I knew what He had done for me. Sometimes understanding begins there. You may not yet understand everything about the person standing in front of you, but you know that your life was one way before Him and another way afterward.
PAUL:
So that is why you followed Him?
MARY:
How could I not? He gave me back my life. Following Him wasn’t an obligation. It was gratitude.
PAUL:
Luke tells us that you were among several women who traveled with Jesus and the Twelve and helped support the ministry from your own resources. What was it like actually following Him from place to place?
MARY:
It was not quiet. There were always people. People wanting healing. People asking questions. People arguing with Him. People following because they loved Him and others following because they wanted to catch Him saying something wrong. And yet somehow, in the middle of all of that, He saw individuals. That always struck me. A crowd could surround Him, but He would notice one person.
PAUL:
Did He treat women differently from other teachers of that time?
MARY:
He treated us as though our souls mattered. He listened. He taught us. He spoke to women others ignored. He was never impressed by someone’s importance, and He was never embarrassed by someone else’s shame. I suppose I noticed that because I knew what it was like to carry shame.
PAUL:
Was there a moment when you realized your devotion to Him had become more than gratitude for what He had done for you?
MARY:
Yes. At first, I followed because He had rescued me. Eventually, I followed because I came to love Him for who He was. There is a difference.
PAUL:
Who did you think Jesus was before the crucifixion?
MARY:
I knew He was unlike anyone I had ever known. I had seen things that could not be explained away. I had heard Him speak about God with an authority that did not sound borrowed. And I had experienced His power personally. Did I understand everything He said about what was coming?No. None of us did. But I knew He had come from God.
PAUL:
Did you believe He was the Messiah?
MARY:
Yes. But I don’t think I understood what kind of Messiah He would be. We wanted victory. We did not understand that the road to victory would pass through a cross.
PAUL:
Let’s talk about that day. You were there. What do you remember?
MARY:
The helplessness. That may be what I remember most. I had seen Jesus help everyone else. I had seen Him heal. I had seen Him restore people. I had experienced that restoration myself. And now He was suffering, and none of us could stop it.
PAUL:
Why did you stay?
MARY:
Where would I go? He had been there when my life was at its worst. Was I going to leave because His life had become frightening? I couldn’t do anything for Him. But I could remain.
PAUL:
Were you afraid?
MARY:
Of course. People had turned against Him. The authorities had condemned Him. His followers could easily have become targets too.But grief can make fear feel very small for a while.
PAUL:
What was going through your mind as you watched Him die?
MARY:
“This cannot be how it ends.” Over and over. I kept thinking that something would happen. That God would intervene. That Jesus would come down from the cross. That somehow the story would change before the final moment. And then He died. And nothing in me was prepared for that.
PAUL:
Did His death shake your faith in Him?
MARY:
It shook everything. I don’t know how else to say it. It wasn’t that I suddenly thought everything I had seen was false. You cannot erase your own deliverance. But I did not know how to put the pieces together. If He was who we believed He was, how could He be dead? And if He was dead, what had all of this meant? I had no answer.
PAUL:
Did you feel abandoned?
MARY:
Yes. Not because He had failed me. But because I had lost Him. There is a difference.
PAUL:
The Gospels are careful to mention that you saw where Jesus was buried. Why is that detail important?
MARY:
Because I knew where He was. I watched. I knew the tomb. There was no confusion about which place we returned to.
PAUL:
When that stone was rolled across the entrance, did it feel final?
MARY:
Completely. A stone across a tomb has a way of saying, “This is over.” I went away grieving because I believed exactly that. It was over.
PAUL:
And yet you went back. Why?
MARY:
Because love does not end the moment someone dies. We still wanted to honor Him. To care for His body properly. To do the last things that love is able to do when there is nothing left to fix.
PAUL:
You weren’t going there looking for a resurrection.
MARY:
No. If I had expected a resurrection, I wouldn’t have been worried about the stone. I went looking for Jesus exactly where you look for someone who has died. At a tomb.
PAUL:
What happened when you arrived?
MARY:
The stone had been moved. And my first reaction was not joy. It was panic.
PAUL:
Why panic?
MARY:
Because grief had already taken Him from me once. Now I thought someone had taken His body too. It felt cruel. As though even the small comfort of knowing where He had been laid had been taken away.
PAUL:
John tells us you ran to Simon Peter and the other disciple and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.” So even then, resurrection had not occurred to you.
MARY:
No. My mind was trying to explain an empty tomb using the world I understood. Dead people do not normally walk out of graves. So I assumed someone had moved Him.
PAUL:
Peter and John then ran to the tomb. You came back too.
MARY:
Yes.
PAUL:
And eventually they left. But you stayed. Why?
MARY:
Because I still did not know where Jesus was. They could go home. I couldn’t. I didn’t have anywhere else I wanted to be.
PAUL:
John says you stood outside the tomb weeping. What were those tears about?
MARY:
Everything. Friday. The cross. The burial. The empty tomb. Fear. Exhaustion. Confusion. And mostly Jesus. I had already lost Him once. Now I didn’t even know where His body was.
PAUL:
Then you looked inside and saw two angels. That alone should have been astonishing.
MARY:
It was. But grief can narrow your world. They asked me why I was crying, and all I could think about was Jesus. “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid Him.” That was the only problem I wanted solved.
PAUL:
Then you turned around and saw a man standing there. Jesus. But you didn’t recognize Him. Why not?
MARY:
I have asked myself that many times. I was crying. It was early. I wasn’t expecting Him. But I think the simplest answer is this: My mind had no room for a living Jesus. I was searching for His body. When you are absolutely certain someone is dead, the last person you expect to meet is that person standing in front of you.
PAUL:
And Jesus asked, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?”
MARY:
Yes. And I still didn’t understand. I thought He worked there. I asked Him if He had moved the body. I was prepared to go wherever He told me and retrieve Jesus myself.
PAUL:
You were going to carry Him?
MARY:
I wasn’t thinking practically. Grief is not always practical. I just wanted Him back.
PAUL:
And then He said your name.
MARY:
Yes. “Mary.”
PAUL:
Take me into that moment.
MARY:
Everything stopped. I knew that voice. I knew the way He said my name. And suddenly the man standing in front of me was not a gardener. He was Jesus. Alive.
PAUL:
What did you feel first?
MARY:
Shock. Then joy. Then something beyond either of those. Because for two days I had been living inside one reality: Jesus is dead. And with one word, that entire reality collapsed.
PAUL:
Just your name.
MARY:
My name. He didn’t begin by explaining prophecy. He didn’t say, “Mary, let Me explain what happened.” He called me. And I knew Him. “RABBONI”
PAUL:
Your response was “Rabboni.” Teacher. Why that word?
MARY:
Because that was who He was to me. My teacher. My Lord. The One I had followed. I didn’t have a speech prepared for seeing someone rise from the dead. I simply responded to Him as the Jesus I knew.
PAUL:
Did you touch Him?
MARY:
My instinct was to hold on to Him. Of course it was. I had lost Him. Now He was standing in front of me. Every part of me wanted to make sure I never lost Him again.
PAUL:
Then Jesus told you not to cling to Him and said He had not yet ascended to the Father. How did you hear that?
MARY:
At first, probably as something I did not completely understand. But I understood enough to know that He was not simply returning to the old life. Something had changed. This was not Jesus escaping death and continuing as though Friday had never happened. He had conquered it. And He had something for me to do.
PAUL:
He sent you to His disciples. What was that like?
MARY:
The first time I ran from the tomb, I was terrified. The second time, I think I barely felt the ground beneath my feet.
PAUL:
What were you thinking?
MARY:
“I have to tell them.” Over and over. I had gone to the tomb carrying grief. I left carrying news.
PAUL:
Were you worried they wouldn’t believe you?
MARY:
Perhaps. But in that moment, their reaction was not my responsibility. I had seen Him. I knew what I had seen. I had to tell them.
PAUL:
And your message was very simple. “I have seen the Lord.”
MARY:
What else needed to be said? He was alive. Everything else followed from that.
PAUL:
Were those the most important words you ever spoke?
MARY:
Yes. Because they were not about what I believed might happen. They were about what I had seen.
PAUL:
The Gospel accounts show that the disciples struggled to believe the reports that Jesus had risen. Did that hurt?
MARY:
I understood it. Remember, I had stood outside the tomb speaking to Jesus and still thought He was the gardener. If anyone understood how impossible resurrection seemed, I did.
PAUL:
So you weren’t angry with them.
MARY:
No. They were grieving too. And soon enough, Jesus would meet them where they were just as He had met me where I was.
PAUL:
I want to ask you something people have wondered about for centuries. Why you? Why was Mary Magdalene given this extraordinary encounter? Jesus could have appeared first to Peter. Or John. Or another of the Twelve. Why do you think He came to you?
MARY:
I don’t know that I can answer why He chose that moment or why He chose me. But I know Jesus was never impressed by the things people use to decide who is important. Position. Reputation. Status. He had already shown me that. I was a woman whose life had once been ruled by darkness. And He restored me. So perhaps it should not surprise anyone that He would also entrust someone like me with good news.
PAUL:
Did it feel like an honor?
MARY:
Later, yes. At the time? I was simply overwhelmed that He was alive.
PAUL:
Mary, when you look back over your life, there are two extraordinary moments. Jesus delivered you from seven demons. And then you encountered Him after His resurrection. Do those two moments connect for you?
MARY:
Very much. The first taught me that Jesus had authority over the darkness that had ruled my life. The second taught me that even death did not have authority over Him.
PAUL:
That must have changed the way you understood everything He had done for you.
MARY:
Yes. When He first freed me, I knew He had given me my life back. After the resurrection, I began to understand that the life He offered was larger than I had imagined.
PAUL:
If someone listening to us today feels that their life is too damaged, too shameful, too controlled by the past for God to use them, what would you say?
MARY:
I would tell them not to decide what Jesus can do with them before they have encountered Jesus. If you had looked at me before He came into my life, you might have seen only what was wrong with me. He saw someone worth freeing.
PAUL:
And afterward?
MARY:
He did not merely remove something from my life. He gave me something to live for. That is important. Freedom is not only being released from what held you. It is discovering whom you belong to afterward.
PAUL:
What about someone grieving? Someone standing where you stood outside that tomb, believing they have lost something they cannot recover?
MARY:
I would be careful. I would never tell a grieving person that their sorrow is small. Mine wasn’t. Jesus Himself did not shame people for grieving. But I would tell them this: What we can see in the darkest moment is not always the whole story. I stood outside an empty tomb crying because I thought everything had become worse. In reality, the greatest victory had already happened. I simply did not know it yet.
PAUL:
Mary, one final question. After everything—the darkness before Him, the freedom He gave you, the years following Him, watching Him die, seeing the empty tomb, and finally hearing Him call your name—who is Jesus to you?
MARY:
The One who found me. The One who freed me. The One who taught me. The One I loved. The One I thought death had taken from me. And the One death could not keep. Pause. My Lord.
PAUL:
Mary, thank you for joining me today and for allowing us to reflect on your extraordinary story.
MARY:
Thank you, Paul.
PAUL:
Mary Magdalene’s story is found throughout the Gospel accounts, but if you want to read the extraordinary morning we have been discussing today, I encourage you to read John chapter 20 for yourself. This conversation has been imagined. The Scripture has not. Mary went to the tomb expecting death. Instead, she encountered the risen Christ. And the moment she recognized Him began with something remarkably personal. He called her by name.
Love and trust the Lord; seek His will in your life. May God richly bless you.
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